Kendall and Rebecca talk with Lauren Judd, Executive Director of the agriculture education non-profit Cornucopia Project and co-owner of Pack Mountain Farm, about managing and leading on a farm (and other enterprises). Lauren emphasizes the importance of leading with joy and creating cultural change in the nonprofit and agriculture sectors. Lauren highlights the challenges of budget constraints and the need for adaptability and support for her team. She advises women in leadership to delegate tasks and focus on their areas of expertise. Lauren also stresses the importance of networking, professional development, and seeking funding opportunities to support sustainable farming practices and community growth.
Lauren Judd, Executive Director of the agriculture education non-profit Cornucopia Project and co-owner of Pack Mountain Farm
The Cornucopia Project: https://cornucopiaproject.org/
Pack Mountain Farm: https://www.facebook.com/PackMountainFarm
Northeast Organic Farming Association of NH (NOFA): https://www.nofanh.org/
TOPP Program with NOFA: https://www.nofanh.org/topp
Antioch University New England: https://www.antioch.edu/new-england/
UNH Cooperative Extension Events: https://extension.unh.edu/events
UNH Professional Development and Training (PD&T): https://training.unh.edu/
Women in Ag Newsletter signup - https://unhoutreach.tfaforms.net/217751?CID=701G0000001AiKCIA0
Lauren Judd: lauren@cornucopiaproject.org
Kendall Kunelius – kendall.kunelius@unh.edu
Rebecca Dube – rebecca.dube@unh.edu
Kendall Kunelius 0:10
Welcome to this episode of Shared Soil, a podcast dedicated to creating community, honoring challenges and encouraging personal and professional growth for all people in agriculture. My name is Kendall Kunelius, and I'm a field specialist in the area of agricultural business management.
Rebecca Dube 0:27
I'm Rebecca Dube, and I provide technology and support to UNH Cooperative Extension.
Kendall Kunelius 0:32
All right, Rebecca, today we've got one of the topics that I have been most excited to talk about. So I usually give a little snippet of where the inspiration comes from for each of our topics, right? And we've had everything from just people we know to really interesting things that have popped up, to involvement with UNH, with research (our Kiwi Berry and diversification episode). But today, this topic is pretty near and dear to my heart. I coordinate all of our Women in Agriculture programming for UNH, and while my focus tends to be a little bit more into the equipment and skill building end of things, we have to acknowledge the importance of the management factors. So the human and labor and actual people aspect of farming is something that is always going to be a hot topic. I don't see that going away anytime soon. And as we were talking and getting to know Lauren, our guest, a little bit more through our Advisory Council and through other channels, it really occurred to me that she's going to have some incredible insight for us about managing and leading as a woman on the farm. So without further ado, Lauren, I'd love to hear from you, and please introduce yourself and tell us who you are.
Lauren Judd 1:46
Thank you, Kendall. My name is Lauren Judd, and I am a woman in agriculture. I have a diverse array of roles in agriculture in the state of New Hampshire. One that I spend most of my time on is as the Executive Director of Cornucopia Project. This is a nonprofit organization based in Peterborough, New Hampshire, and we've been around for almost 20 years doing farm-to-table education with youth. So we have a lot of fun, and we work closely with the school districts in our region, which is the Monadnock region in Hillsborough County. We also support teachers throughout the state to bring farm-to-school education into their classrooms and outside of their classrooms. Outside of Cornucopia Project. I also have a farm. It's not too big and not too small, and it's located in Temple, New Hampshire. It's called Pack Mountain Farm. My husband and I have been farming this land for a little over 10 years. At one time we had Nigerian dwarf goats, and they're beautiful and fun. Now we don't have any animals. We are focused on vegetable production and fruit production. We are part of the TOPP program through NOFA New Hampshire. That means we're on our way to become certified organic, so we're learning about that. We currently supply one small market and ourselves. So we're really at the beginning of that personal farming journey. And even though I said we've been doing it for 10 years, the reason we're still at the beginning 10 years in is because we have work outside of that and three children and family. I mentioned that because this is a wonderful obstacle for many of us, especially women in agriculture, as I have come to understand from talking to a lot of women who are getting into agriculture, so I also serve on a number of advisory committees and boards in the state. It helps me a lot, and it helps organizations a lot. One of those is UNH Extension Advisory Council in Hillsborough County. Another is the New Hampshire Food Alliance Advisory Committee. I'm on the Hillsborough County Conservation District board as a supervisor, and I'm on the New Hampshire Association of Conservation Districts board as representative for Hillsborough County.
Rebecca Dube 4:33
Wow, you're a busy woman. Lauren!
Lauren Judd 4:36
Yeah! So I'm also in school at Antioch University, and I chose Antioch University because of their commitment to social justice, and it's a fabulous program. I did my MBA there, and now I'm in a PhD program for leadership and change. I'm focusing on the nonprofit sector.
Kendall Kunelius 4:55
Okay, wait, I was totally sure we had the right person when we asked you before to come on this podcast, and now I'm like, wow, we just hit a home run! I am so excited.
Lauren Judd 5:05
Yeah, I'm just glad I can help. Thanks.
Kendall Kunelius 5:07
Wow. So Rebecca, initially, I'm thinking back to our episode with Danielle about finding your voice in the agriculture community, getting involved in agriculture, even if you aren't a farmer or don't have the ability to farm. And Lauren, that's really resonating with how many committees you're on and all your different levels of involvement. And they want to just take a quick side note to say, like, how did you find out about all of those and what little pieces of each really interested you in allocating, you're obviously very, you're in time demand, right? How did you decide how much time you wanted to allocate to those?
Lauren Judd 5:38
I lead with where my joy lies. That is a part of my personal philosophy.
Kendall Kunelius 5:45
I think it sounds wonderful. I've just wrote it down. It was so good. I was like, oooh, show notes!
Lauren Judd 5:50
And I really want that for everyone who I'm working to support. When I'm gardening, I don't say farming because I feel like my farm is small.
Rebecca Dube 6:03
But that's okay!
Lauren Judd 6:03
No, I know. I've also, as a woman in agriculture, I've gotten plenty of negative feedback from men in agriculture via email and other channels, saying, like, "you don't have a farm because you don't have cows". Or, you know, like, "How can you claim that you're farming?" I'm just like, what? Go, Go farm! Go farm yourself!
Rebecca Dube 6:31
We had a guest, Becka Gagne, who talked about her farm as a human-sized farm. And I loved that concept, in that it was just human-sized and good for the environment. They were taking the time to take additional regenerative practices. So that led her to have a smaller situation that she farmed on, but it was still a farm.
Lauren Judd 6:52
Yeah, right, like, how do you define a farm? In any case, I just thought that I'd share that interesting tidbit about my hate mail you get as a woman in agriculture. So I love doing the activity of farming. Clearly, I get called into these other realms frequently, but my favorite thing to do is actually do the farming and be sitting on ground, working in my rows. So I have a really long-range view, and I'm really protective of my future. When I say I lead with joy, I also seek to protect joy, not just for right now, but for later. So part of my motivation to go and participate in all of these different groups is to make a space for farming in the future for myself and others to always improve the opportunities in farming for the future for myself and others. I think I figure if I want to do this, and I hear enough people saying they want to do this, it's definitely worth investing in making this more possible for more people. And that's really just from the perspective of, I'll dare to say self-actualization as a piece of joy, but in an ecological sense, I do know that this is what our world needs now. So it's also a way that I can be part of that circle and try to address some of these larger challenges by working locally.
Kendall Kunelius 8:26
As I'm listening and reflecting to all of that, the question kind of comes to my mind. So first, I want to agree with you. There definitely is a sense of people seek to invalidate those who are doing something wonderful, and they seek to invalidate those who are doing something different than what they're doing, and there's a sense of gatekeeping. I find it really interesting to hear you talk about that hate mail, quote, unquote, that we get that adverse sentiment to the things that we are looking to do because it challenges the norm of agriculture. I don't want to dive too deeply into that right now, because I think we're going to hit that, and some of the other questions will will come across. But I love that you said that, and I think it's a very powerful statement to make, to say, we are facing a lot of challenges, management challenges, for sure. But within the agriculture circle we have an opportunity to be supporting each other. And we're seeing these food hubs, we're seeing these coalitions pop up where farmers are banding together because they are being more realistic about what they can produce, how much they can produce, and maintaining a quality of life that supports their values and their goals, and it's a very holistic view of living rather than just production. Yeah, I think I want to leave it at that for now, but I just really love that you got there so quickly in the conversation, because I was hoping we'd get there and use that as a springboard. So I guess that's maybe a good transition into saying, please just share with us one or two of your biggest successes as a woman manager or leader. And this could be on farm, it could be off farm, but give us a little bit of what you're really vibing on right now for big things that you consider a success.
Lauren Judd 10:04
I'm really vibing on culture; creating cultural change as a nonprofit leader that comes with its own unique set of challenges. And anyone listening to this who works in the nonprofit sector is probably nodding their head and going, "Oh yeah," because it's a deep, deep area. So I really focus on creating a shift in how we work in the nonprofit sector. And when you meet that with agriculture and the challenges that come with agriculture (and everyone who's in agriculture is nodding their head now), then you have a really interesting challenge that's forever shifting. Every season brings a different set of challenges for the nonprofit sector and for the ag sector. What's happening on an economic level, local, state or national really has an impact on both of those areas. And you can navigate all of that without suffering. That's kind of been my thesis, I guess. I work with a pretty small team, and they happen to be all women. And I guess I should listen to your podcast on how all women are increasingly leading agriculture in New Hampshire and the nation. We also have so many challenges with our age, just what's happening in our lives relative to the place in which we are in our lives. So with all of this in mind, adaptability is so important if you're working on a team. And I wanted to frame it and all of that, because some people talk about adaptability, like, "oh, yeah, we're adaptable, and we can respond to what's happening here, yeah." But we're talking about adaptability on so many levels, and it's because I want everyone who sees that they can grow in their role here and finds joy in their role here, to be able to stay here and invest here and be supported here. And that can look a lot of different ways. That can look like you can bring your child to work, or a really flexible schedule, or we all have each other's backs and can jump in. Or we can have compensation that is on track with the cost of living here and responds to inflation. We can provide benefits that are needed. So all of these things that are such huge challenges and how to have a really holistic view of your quality of life within the context of working in agriculture and working in the nonprofit sector, all of these things are my problem to solve. As the leader of this organization, I do not want to be someone who enables the suffering of the people who deliver the most important services to our community. I want to enable them to deeply specialize in their area of expertise. And people can't do that when they are worrying about just how to make it work so that right there is what I'm all about right now.
Rebecca Dube 13:26
Terrific.
Kendall Kunelius 13:27
I love that, and I guess I would like to respond to that on a bit of a personal level. Formerly, I managed an agriculturally-focused retail store, and much of my many years first out of college were in ag retail, and as I grew from a store clerk to an assistant manager to a manager, I truly felt like that was an aspect that was missing, was to be able to foster those really deeply gratifying positions that were compensated fairly, that gave the value back to the employee that they were giving to the company. And that's not to speak poorly of the the employers that I had, but that is to say, the corporate culture I think, kind of seeps through many of the different industries that we are all involved in. It's very exciting for me to hear that there are still people out there who are leading and managing that have these values and are seeking to create that cultural shift. I think that's incredibly important, and I'm very deeply touched. So thank you for sharing that. All that to say, I do feel now that at least in this position, I am able to contribute to that change in the best way possible, and this podcast being one of those ways. I'm so glad we touched on that. I guess that's a great lead-in then for just share a challenge that you've had a unique solution for, and maybe we kind of touched on that piece too, but anything in particular that you'd want to talk about as a challenge?
Lauren Judd 14:51
Sure, yeah. I didn't think I'd go here, but I hope that this is something that both can connect to. I'm inspired by a conversation that I just recently had. It reminded me of where I was a few years ago. So again, there's intersection of agriculture and nonprofits, but I think that it does expand beyond that specific realm. So in thinking about a challenge that I've worked on and maybe seen some success, I don't want to call it a done challenge, has to do with budgets and finance. And I know that this translates to female farmers and all farmers, but I do remember there was a time when I was handed a budget, which was essentially just the constraints that I had. This is how much money there's going to be, looking far ahead, a year ahead, and what are you going to do, basically, to guarantee this income in this budget that's been handed to you, including pay for yourself, right? And so that was normal. I didn't - I just said, okay, let's go figure this out. And I was just recently hearing someone else in the nonprofit and ag intersection, intersector, say that this is what they were looking at right now. And yeah, I remember those times and just making tough choices about what I wasn't going to do. And these are things that I really, really wanted to do. These are things that I was deeply inspired by. I had a fire in me to do these things, and I knew this is what was needed based on what I was hearing from other people, based on my recent experience and even more distant experience, but I couldn't do it because there just wasn't enough money. And looking at that from the perspective of this is my next year ahead of me, that is not a good feeling. That does not fill you with drive and inspiration for the year ahead. That's a tough place to put somebody into. So I have become somewhat, I don't want to really use the word obsessed, but extremely focused, laser focused, on bringing in enough funding to free my team to follow their inspiration and energy while also responding to the very real needs of the community we serve. I've made that my number one - not number one - I've made that one of my priority jobs, and worked on it so hard over the past five years, and I can say there is so much financial support for farmers and female partners. And I'll also say that having the capacity to even seek out that support is a huge challenge, yeah. But I will also say that after really changing how I work and what I'm working on and working with an incredible team to shift around responsibility areas in order to free up capacity to move strategically and access this support so that we can grow incrementally, has been an incredible growing experience for everyone, and probably the most important beacon that we followed is follow your inspiration. Have people work where they're most motivated, ask the question, what do you want to be doing? What are you most excited about right now? And really respond to that and see where we need to kind of fill gaps that are created by people moving toward their energy and joy. It's been a wonderful and dynamic experience. And now, when I ask people about the year ahead, I don't give them what they can spend. I ask them, what do they need, what do they want, what would be ideal? What does that look like for us? And then I kind of go and hide in my cave and figure out what needs to be done to facilitate this. And I really reach out to this vast network via studying the information coming through these councils and boards and from USDA and I seek, and I keep track all the time, I just put a list of what opportunities I could tap into and when, so that I can do the support.
Rebecca Dube 19:33
Do you find, Lauren, that being a part of these various conservation commissions and organizations taps you into the network and gives you more access to opportunities, for funding, for different opportunities than you might have had if you weren't so networked in?
Lauren Judd 19:51
Of course. Everybody go out and join a board! Run for office, get involved. It doesn't take a ton of time. You are so needed. I think boards are facing critical shortages here. And what you should know is these organizations who do provide funding opportunities and support are legally required to have a board with a certain number of people in order to exist. And if they don't have these people involved, they cannot exist, and they cannot help you and all of the other people you care about who are growing food for us and for our children. So yes, I have learned a lot, specifically around budgets and finances. Learned about new funding sources, new foundations, more grant opportunities when webinars are happening with info sessions for grant opportunities. And I have most definitely secured grant funding for this organization and for my farm, my personal family farm, because of my participation in those info sessions, which I learned about in my service. Please join a board. Please run for local office. You are needed, and it will help you so much!
Rebecca Dube 21:15
You heard it directly from Lauren. Join a board.
Kendall Kunelius 21:20
I think one of the interesting things I wanted to circle back around as I was listening to you; it really struck me how well you must know your people around you to be able to help them allocate as best assets for not only your nonprofit, but for themselves; and finding that balance between really knowing who you have working for you and getting to know your people. And also, I think I hear a level of trust there between the two parties, being the management or leader and the people that you're leading, that they know that you have their best in mind all the time, their best and highest use or contribution, or I don't know, personal investment at all times. So I don't know if you want to speak to that a little bit. How did you develop that sort of really key relationship with the people that you work with and for?
Lauren Judd 22:14
Thank you for saying that. That's incredibly kind, and I strive to be a great ally and colleague. I don't know that I know them very well, though. I also, I'm still learning about myself.
Kendall Kunelius 22:31
What's that saying? We can only meet each other as deeply as we've met ourselves? I don't know where that quote came from, but I heard that the other day. Just made me think of it. Yeah, yeah. That's beautiful.
Lauren Judd 22:41
I think it's more that, I don't strive to know them very well, because that might be none of my business. Okay, so people come in all different ways of being. Some people don't want to feel like you're trying to deeply know them. That's fair. Yeah. Some people want to be known and understood, and I don't have a preference. But what I do value for myself, and therefore assume it might be appreciated by others, is having the space to explore who you are in your role and being trusted that I'm going to do well in understanding that and that I will have integrity and authenticity and delivering the best I have to offer to my area of responsibility. So you said trust, Kendall, and yeah, there's trust. And I will say that I do show up with this really vast, and given-immediately, assumption that everyone, if they're new to staff or not, is showing in their best, coming from their best place. Ready to engage, ready to have a good time, ready to make mistakes and ready to move on from them; ready to get messy and be human together and just give each other the grace to be fully human and do the work. So that's really, I think how I position myself in relationship to my team, and I'm also very open to my team surprising me or becoming someone new.
Kendall Kunelius 24:36
I think the other interesting thing I'm hearing from you in this is this idea that we are able to change, and change is good, and we have to adapt. I will go out on a limb here and say that's not necessarily what we think of as the, I would say stereotypical, attitude of New England farmers. That's going to be a little bit of a spicy take, but when we think of - Like in my work when I talk with farmers who are of a certain generation or mindset, and I ask them, have you tried this? Have you considered this? If it wasn't what their family did generationally, it's really not in their conceptual space just yet. There's really a generational push to be like, this is the way it's been done. This is the way we're always going to do it. And I love that you're really bringing some freshness and energizing this idea of change as a constant, and inherently we have to change with agriculture. Our world around us is changing. The climate around us is changing. We have the numbers and the science to show us that. So I think if we can embrace this idea of healthy change and forward movement, the better off all of us in the agricultural industry will be. So I guess in that line of questioning, thinking about change or thinking about the other things we've talked about, can you share some advice or thoughts for other women who might be managing or leading a farm?
Lauren Judd 26:02
Don't try to do it all and be it all.
Rebecca Dube 26:05
Good advice.
Kendall Kunelius 26:08
Enough said, there it is! No no, please continue . . .
Lauren Judd 26:14
Honestly, I have more to say because I have a lot to say! At one point in time and space, it can be deeply empowering to feel like you can do it all. It can embolden you, give you confidence. You can, like stick it in the eye of everyone who said you couldn't do it by being someone who can do it all. If you want to do that, do it, but know that you're going to get tired. So when you're done filling that cup for yourself, just know that to be truly great within the context of your gifts, You need the freedom, space, time, and creative bandwidth to explore into your area of expertise. The only way that you can do that is if these other to do's that you don't love are picked up by someone else. If you are not feeling deeply inspired to figure out how to file your taxes or what kind of business entity your farm should be; or how you would want to have employees and how you might manage paying them. If you're not jazzed about solving those problems, there are other women and others, not just women, who can really help you with that and do amazing work for you, and be affordable, really. There are also plenty of services, you know that gig economy, so that you can tap into to take on these tasks that might pull you away from your passion or pull you away from your special. So, yeah, I think that's really important to know, that you don't have to be every - don't have to do everything, but you are obligated to bring your gifts to the world. They are waiting for you. So please, any barriers that are in your way or in your way of doing that, try to remove them, to set them aside, so that you can give what you have to give. What is special.
Kendall Kunelius 28:23
I think the obstacles thing is a really interesting question, too. And another little tangent. One of my favorite tricks when I come up to an obstacle is to ask myself, okay, what skills am I going to have on the other side of this, or what things can I learn while I'm working through this predicament? So, yeah, lifelong learning is a really important thing, and I definitely am thinking like, yeah, the obstacles are part of that, but also feeling really good about being good at something is another really great aspect to that.
Lauren Judd 28:56
Why think this way is a personal experience of mine. Back in the old days, when I was in college and of college age and just really getting exposed to for the first time mind expansion, as happens with learning, about the cost to the environment of how we do what we do. I traveled to India, and had a really hard time, and I came back in shock. I wanted to become and I wanted to be self-sufficient. Started growing all my own food, lived in a yurt and had one solar panel. Started grinding my own wheat and cooking on a wood stove and hauling my water and heating my - rugged. It took me a year of hard living to go, "You know what? We need people to share the work of living." At the time, I thought that self-sufficiency was this, "Yes! self-sufficiency is the goal! That's where we're trying to get." And I was completely wrong. And now what I think about is ecology and how do we exist in relationship to each other? We don't have to be self-sufficient. That is not how civilization has progressed. Yeah, yeah. So it's all about figuring out what the goal is and working together to achieve that. And I think that there can be this isolation that comes with farming, farming while female. Maybe you just have your kids with you, I don't know. But just having people around, even if you're not a deeply people-person, having that network to turn to and work with in any way; it can be a total game changer, even just knowing they're there.
Rebecca Dube 30:50
Support.
Kendall Kunelius 30:50
Yeah, and do you know, that's half the reason why we started this podcast, is because I heard a lot, I got a lot of that from women saying, it's pretty lonely out weeding in the carrots, or weeding and doing this! And I thought, wow, how cool would it be if we could just produce something that sounds like you're just part of - you're sitting in a room with these people having a conversation with them and listening in on this, so that you feel like you're part of that community. So thank you for sharing that story, because it just embodied everything that we're hoping to do with this project.
Rebecca Dube 31:20
Right, all about community. And another question we have as women talking to each other about different things with agriculture, do you have any professional development you recommend for someone who's moving into a management role?
Lauren Judd 31:34
Enroll in Antioch University and take the nonprofit track! No, I think free courses are great. Also, New Hampshire, Southern New Hampshire University, University of New Hampshire, take courses. Take asynchronous courses, so that you can do it on your own time, like when you can't sleep because your baby just woke you up, and it's two o'clock in the morning and you're wide awake, and it's something to do. Like how I earned my MBA. Just keep learning. And one thing that is really simple but effective that I've enjoyed is having Audible and getting recommendations from other women facing the same challenges I'm facing, and listening to books. Because, like, I loved books when I used to have time to sit down, but now I love listening to books while doing anything and any kind of task where I'm moving. So that's a really great resource, and it's a business expense, potentially, I think, professional development!, So take courses wherever you can. Also take lunches, take coffees, reach out to other people you don't know and invite them just to talk with you. I have taken professional development to an extreme with going through MBA and PhD. You don't have to do that to get a lot of great information. Of course, I want to shout out UNH Extension and the vast world that exists online, of resources. It's really fantastic. But if you don't want to sit and read online, or just don't have time for that. Sign up for some of the events, whatever resonates with your interest area and go to the UNH Extension events. Go hang out with NOFA New Hampshire at their events and meet people who you want to have lunch or coffee with.
Kendall Kunelius 33:36
Yeah, UNH PD&T (Professional Development and Training). They actually have a whole certificate program for women in leadership. Lauren, if anyone wants to reach out to you about your farming endeavors or about Cornucopia where can people find you, to connect with you on your professional sites?
Lauren Judd 33:54
You can find me on LinkedIn. You can find me through Cornucopia Project. Go to our website, cornucopiaproject.org, and send me a message through the website or email me directly, lauren@cornucopiaproject.org
Rebecca Dube 34:11
Thank you, Lauren, that's some amazing advice and information that you've shared with us. I'm so glad we had a chance to sit and talk, and if you want to hear more about our various podcasts and resources and things with women in agriculture. You can also sign up for our women in agriculture newsletter. You can find that on the UNH Extension website, under newsletters, and we'll hook you up with all different events we have going on there.
Kendall Kunelius 34:39
Yeah. Would also love to hear from you wherever you're listening to this podcast. So give us a like, give us a comment, maybe a review, preferably five stars, but tell us what you think. We want to hear from you. We want to know exactly what what you're hearing and feeling from these podcasts, and if you have any ideas, as always, we'd love to hear episode suggestions. Feel free to reach out to us, and those contact points will be in the show notes,
Rebecca Dube 35:06
Okay, and we'll be talking to you again soon, on Shared Soil.
Kendall Kunelius 35:17
Shared Soil is a production of University of New Hampshire Cooperative Extension, an equal opportunity educator and employer. Views expressed on this podcast are not necessarily those of the university, its trustees or its volunteers. Inclusion or exclusion of commercial products in this podcast does not imply endorsement. The University of New Hampshire, US Department of Agriculture and New Hampshire counties cooperate to provide extension programming in the Granite State. Learn more at extension.unh.edu.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
